Hit Points & Wounds
When a character is attacked, he takes damage. This damage is subtracted from his Hits on his character sheet. In addition to his Hits, there are a few other types of damage that he can receive.
Before any hits are marked on the character sheet, the total of all hits dealt to the character from the attack will have the character's Armor Rating subtracted from it. Refer to p.xx in the Combat section for more information.
To determine the starting values or thresholds for the various sub-sections of the Damage Tracking section, use the following guidelines:
Hits: This value represents how many hits of damage your character can take before going unconscious. Damage that is removed from Hits is sometimes referred to as Bruising or Fatigue, depending upon the source. When a character casts a spell, he takes Fatigue, unless he rolls exceptionally well, and that Fatigue is subtracted from hit Hits.
Every Race has its own number of Base Hits. To this you add a number equal to your character's Stamina plus any hits gained through Training Path abilities or Talents. The total goes on the line to the left of the box.
Minor Wounds: This is the total number of Minor Wounds that a character can receive before he is unconscious. It is a value that is equal to the character's Constitution Stat.
If a character has received one or more Minor Wounds, he receives a -1 modifier to all actions for each Minor Wound received. Minor Wounds can be received even if a character still has Hits left.
Major Wounds: This is the total number of Major Wounds that a character may receive before he is unconscious. It is a value equal to the character's Constitution Stat minus 1. A character can never have less than 1 Major Wound starting out, so if Con -1 is equal to zero or less, this would still be a 1.
If a character has received one or more Major Wounds, he receives a -2 modifier to all actions for each Major Wound received. Major Wounds can be received even if a character still has Hits or Minor Wounds left.
Dire Wounds: This is the total number of Dire Wounds that a character may receive before he is dead. It is a value equal to the character's Constitution Stat minus 2. A character can never have less than 1 Dire Wound starting out, so if Con -2 is equal to zero or less, this would still be a 1.
If a character has received one or more Dire Wounds, he receives a -3 modifier to all actions for each Dire Wound received. Dire Wounds can be received even if a character still has Hits or Minor or Major Wounds left.
Penalties from Wounds: Should a character receive a -10 or greater penalty from Wounds, he must make a Save vs. Stamina or be rendered unconscious for 1 minute for each point that the Save is failed by. The TN of the Save is increased by 1 for each point of penalty greater than -10 (i.e. a -12 increases TN of Save from 15 to 17). Should the penalty be equal to or greater than -20, then the character will fall unconscious without a Save. The character will then remain unconscious until the Penalty drops below -20.
Dazed: A character has a Dazed Threshold equal to his Con + 4. Should the character receive a number of hits equal to or greater than his Dazed Threshold, he will be Dazed for 1 round. The only time a character would not be Dazed from the Hits received in a single attack is if it Stunned him instead.
While Dazed, the character is limited to no more than a single Half Action and a single Snap Action for the round.
Stuns: Should a character take a number of Hits from a single attack that is equal to or greater than his Stamina +4, he will be Stunned for 1 round. While Stunned, the character may only perform those actions listed as Abort Actions.
It is possible, unlikely but still possible, that a character's Stun Threshold is lower than his Dazed Threshold. In such rare instances, the character will not be Dazed from Hits taken, instead going straight to Stunned. This issue with the Thresholds would have no impact on Daze or Stun received from Boons.
I have a copy of version 11, and the number of procedures to determine damage seems a little... heavy. Not complex per se, but a lot of choices. IME players can easily get analysis paralysis with all these choices.
Is that still how damage works?
Just realized that the character sheet does not include Staggered on there (for Dazed, Staggered, Stunned, the three conditions that limit the type of actions that may be performed), I think that I will need to include that.
sure
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Are you referring to players making the choice of what type of damage to do? ...
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Are you referring to players making the choice of what type of damage to do? ...
Yes. That seems overly complicated. I would love to see some tables that apply damage based on attack type (ballistic, bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, etc.) that assign damage based on the result. Not weapon specific tables and not any cute descriptive text, just a "if I use a weapon with this type of damage, and I roll this well, what damage do I do" kind of a reference.
I'm really fuzzy on how damage actually works. Do hits overflow into minor --> major --> dire? In the playtest draft it mentions multiples that = wounds. So, do you just use the highest divisor?
...
I like the suggestion of changing missile weapons to be Ballistic (or perhaps LSB, Low Speed Ballistic, to reflect bows and such, and HSB, High Speed Ballistic for slug throwers (i.e. guns), to be added later on).
What is hilarious is that by putting it on a table, it starts looking like a crit table....
Wonder if I should have listings like
5 Hits, 1 Dz OR 2 Hits, 1 Stun
-4 Hits for Minor Penalty max of -5
-5 hits for Dazed (max of 2
-10 hits for 1 Stun
So, this is what I see. Too many options. And they overlap enough that they devalue each other. I like the general idea of "massive damage" effects represented by damage thresholds being built in to the game because they are quick & easy to understand. But, Dazed & Stunned are 1 point Boon results. Meaning it's more than likely that if you Stunning a foe, you are likely also getting a 1 point boon because the Boon is based off the attack roll, not the damage.
This is where my math obsession kicks in: So, a Kobold (pg. 195 v11) has a DEF of 25 & AR of 8. Daze is 9, Stun is 12.
If a PC with an Attack bonus of +10 and a base damage of 10 attacks this kolbold they need to roll a 35 to score a boon (seems high?). But, after reducing the base damage of 10 by the AR of 8 we are left with 2 damage + scaled. If you roll a 35 you automatically stun that foe & get a boon point (2+10=12 damage).
Here's the thing: it's the same result but one is the result of Affect (skill) and the other Effect (damage). I personally like the Effect version better as tougher creatures are less likely to be stunned & dazed. However, the Boon point trigger is a critical (pardon the pun) part of Novus.
I wonder if the Stun & Dazed effects should be removed from boons or it might make sense to either remove the thresholds (as they seem to be included as boons anyway)
From a "sales" perspective they are both interesting- but, Boons & Snags are the unique to Novus feature.
Thoughts?
I actually think Dazed & Stun should be based on the thresholds and bleeding etc be Boons based on the Damage Type. In effect we could have Damage type based boons - I think it was Darb who had started developing some Cold based ones already.
| Threshold | Bashing | Slash/Pierce | SMP | Energy |
| Con+2 | 1 Daze | 1 Pen | 1 Bleed | 1 Pen |
| Stamina+2 | 1 Stun | 1 Bleed | 1 Pen | 1 Stun |
I may include the Hit Swapping for Wounds, as a non-optional kick.
If ...
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Or perhaps something like this
...
Extra Damage
Dealt when the amount of damage exceeds one of the Thresholds
Threshold Bashing Slash/Pierce SMP Energy Con+2 1 Daze 1 Pen 1 Bleed 1 Pen Stamina+2 1 Stun 1 Bleed 1 Pen 1 Stun
SMP = Slow Moving Projectiles (Bows, Crossbows, etc)
Energy = Any magical or other type of attack that does not fit within another classification (i.e. lightning, heat, cold)
An then the Boon Points still remain, and as always, a selected Boon must make sense for weapon an situation. I would not allow a simple Mace to do Bleeding damage. Penalties, yes, but not Bleeding.
On a similar yet unrelated note.....can we do away with adding stats to base damage? Your skill roll is already modified by your stat, so, in theory it already adds hit points via scaled damage. It's always bothered me for some reason.........
On a similar yet unrelated note.....can we do away with adding stats to base damage? Your skill roll is already modified by your stat, so, in theory it already adds hit points via scaled damage. It's always bothered me for some reason.........
Remember, in the current rules, a different stat is added to the damage, but I will take a closer look (as that would mean another reworking of monsters heheh). But yeah, that would make things easier and less complicated in the long run.
And the more I think about it, the more I do like that idea, since it does simplify things.
The only thing is it would be strange to me to not add your strength stat to the damage that you inflict for muscle powered weapons. By removing the damage stat to the damage this would effectively remove strength from the damage inflicted for a majority of weapons.
The only thing is it would be strange to me to not add your strength stat to the damage that you inflict for muscle powered weapons. By removing the damage stat to the damage this would effectively remove strength from the damage inflicted for a majority of weapons.
Yeah, that is part of the issue (as to why they have not been removed yet).
I could do Averaged Stats for weapons (i.e. add 2 Stats, divided by 2, round down), and put this on the Weapon Table.. Afterall, the use of many weapons is often a combination of stats Strength and Dex in most cases
Personally, I'd rather avoid stat averaging. My opinion on STR in melee is that it is part of the Base Damage because you use it to reach the STR minimum required to wield a weapon. Realistically, your STR in melee is actually the difference between your STR and the STR minimum associated with the weapon.
IMO we should mimic what Hero System (and GURPS I think) does and only allow you to "push" the Base Damage of a Weapon if your exceeds the STR minimum by X points. There are no STR Minimums in Novus- but you could do this by weapon size Small (STR 7-9), Medium (STR 10-12), Large (STR 13-15) for example. The Caveat for Large Weapons is that they are two handed. Maybe you can add your STR to weapon damage if your value (using a Novus 1 reference) exceeds the STR Minimum by 5 points or something?
Personally, I'd rather avoid stat averaging. My opinion on STR in melee is that it is part of the Base Damage because you use it to reach the STR minimum required to wield a weapon. Realistically, your STR in melee is actually the difference between your STR and the STR minimum associated with the weapon.
IMO we should mimic what Hero System (and GURPS I think) does and only allow you to "push" the Base Damage of a Weapon if your exceeds the STR minimum by X points. There are no STR Minimums in Novus- but you could do this by weapon size Small (STR 7-9), Medium (STR 10-12), Large (STR 13-15) for example. The Caveat for Large Weapons is that they are two handed. Maybe you can add your STR to weapon damage if your value (using a Novus 1 reference) exceeds the STR Minimum by 5 points or something?
Yeah, I am not a fan of averaging stats either. If I can avoid it, I will.
How about something like:
Melee Push -- Take a -5 modifier to your Initiative Point (IP) and if your attack is successful, you can add your Str to the amount of damage dealt. Two handed weapons only get a -2 modifier to IP. This does not effect either Base Damage or the Scaled Damage limits.
I just think the stat adding into damage twice doesn't make sense. I have no problem with it adding to Damage once. The way Novus 1 works is if you have a DEX based weapon DEX adds to the AB and the DMG. If, say DEX was added to the AB but STR to the DMG this would somehow make more sense to me. Does that make sense to someone else?
Ok, here is an idea......
Right now a weapon has a damage range equal to "from x to 3x" where x is the Damage Rating of the weapon.
What if we changed it to (for Melee Weapons only), "from x to 3x+Str"?
Thus if your character has a Str of 3, a Dagger (DR4) would have a damage range of 4 to 15 if wielded in melee, but on 4 to 12 if thrown.
This way Strength is part of the Damage calculations, but we are not technically adding stats twice or adding multiple stats
Oh, side note -- LN11 is actually Novus 2.0 rules adapted to Novus. (http:///smile.gif)
I think the rules in LN11 really improve Novus. (http:///smile.gif)
So I took a look at the Action section of the rules.
We have the following:[/list]
- 1 Full Action and a Snap Action OR
- 2 Half Actions and a Snap Action OR
- 1 Half Action and 2 Snap Actions
Ok, some rationale......
I use Speed or Dexterity as the Stat to be used with combat skills (not including ranged attacks) because foes will be bobbing and weaving and trying to dodge one another while trying to attack as well. And this represents the characters using that finesse as it were to get through the foe's guard to strike.
And while thinking about this issue, it occurred to me that adding strength to an attack's damage is problematical, at least on every single attack.
So I took a look at the Action section of the rules.
We have the following:
- 1 Full Action and a Snap Action OR
- 2 Half Actions and a Snap Action OR
- 1 Half Action and 2 Snap Actions
And the problem lies here:
Full Action
[/list]
- Melee Attack (Full AB, Multiple attacks if available, etc)
Basically, I am equating an attack with full AB to be the equivalent to making multiple attacks, when they should take longer, but if they take longer than a round, that defeats the purpose of them.
[/list]
This is quite interesting. The more I look at the layers of rules for damage the more I see over-lap. For example, the 1 point Boon Strong Attack: Does additional Base Damage equal to Strength Stat Bonus. May not be used with Adrenal Surge.
............
I understand the idea of making weapon damage a little bit variable from PC to PC or Monster to Monster but, I wonder if it devalues Boons if you add it in as base damage. Again, the stat is already accounted for in the scaled damage.
The proverbial can of worms it seems...
Ok, here is an idea......
Oh my...
This thread has exploded in the little time I have been gone.
So I've read through most everything on this thread and the current problem seems to be that adding two stats to damage is problematic to some. Personally, I see no problem with it; mostly for 2 reasons.
1. It makes perfect, real life sense that a skilled swordsman (Or whatever weapon) can do just as much damage as a wild strong man swinging as hard as he can. In fact, the skilled man has more chance of landing a hit, but no one is going to ignore the wild strong man just because he has little skill. He is still dangerous. I feel that this is reflected well in Novus, where skill not only lets you hit but also lets you hit better, but in a tight situation where you must weild unfamiliar weapons, you can just use brute force.
2. Taking damage modifiers out of the combat system slows down what I have noticed is already a semi- slow combat system.
yup, I am working on the next playtest doc for you guys AND on building a beta doc for public release.
1) Str becomes a modifier to the maximum amount of Scaled Damage that can be dealt, but is not applied to actual damage.
2) Added the Maximum Action for multiple attacks and an attack that includes adding Str to the the total damage dealt (with other Actions to account for these changes).
| [b]Combat Complications[/b] | ||||
| [b]Complications[/b] | [b]Bash[/b] | [b]Slash[/b] | [b]Pierce[/b] | [b]Energy[/b] |
| 1 MnC (DT+3) | SD I (Dazed 1) | SD I (Penalty -1) | SD I (Bleeding 1) | SD I (Penalty -1) |
| 1 MjC (DT+5) | Mn Wnd | Mn Wnd | Mn Wnd | Mn Wnd |
| 2 MnC (DT+6) | SD II (Stun 1) | SD II (Bleeding 1) | SD II (Dazed 1) | SD II (Stun 1) |
| 1 MnC & 1 MjC (DT+[img]/bigeyes.gif[/img] | Mj Wnd OR (1 Mn & SD I) | Mj Wnd OR (1 Mn & SD I) | Mj Wnd OR (1 Mn & SD I) | Mj Wnd OR (1 Mn & SD I) |
| 2 MjC (DT+10) | 2 Mn Wnd OR (1 Mj & SD II) | 2 Mn Wnd OR (1 Mj & SD II) | 2 Mn Wnd OR (1 Mj & SD II) | 2 Mn Wnd OR (1 Mj & SD II) |
| 2 MnC & 1 MjC (DT+11) | Dire Wnd | Dire Wnd | Dire Wnd | Dire Wnd |
| 1 MnC & 2 MjC (DT+13) | Dire Wnd & (Stun 2 or Staggered 1) | Dire Wnd & (Stun 1) | Dire Wnd & (Stun I) | Dire Wnd & (Stun 2 or Staggered 1) |
| Critical Success (Natural 20) | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death |
[b]Combat Damage Table[/b] | ||||
| [b]Attack Roll Result[/b] | [b]Bash[/b] | [b]Slash[/b] | [b]Pierce[/b] | [b]Energy[/b] |
| ? Defensive Threshold (DT) | DR Hits* | DR Hits* | DR Hits* | DR Hits* |
| ? DT & 1 MnC (DT+3) | DR+3 Hits*; Dazed 1 rnd | DR+3 Hits*; Penalty -1 | DR+3 Hits*; 1 hit/rnd | DR+3 Hits*; Penalty -1 |
| ? DT & 1 MjC (DT+5) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) |
| ? DT & 2 MnC (DT+6) | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Dazed 1 rnd OR DR+6 Hits*; Stunned 1 rnd | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Penalty -1 OR DR+6 Hits*; 1 hit/rnd | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); 1 hit/rnd OR DR+6 Hits*; Dazed 1 rnd | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Penalty -1 OR DR+6 Hits*; Stunned 1 rnd |
| ? DT & 1 MnC & 1 MjC (DT+[img]/bigeyes.gif[/img] | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Dazed 1 rnd OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Stunned 1 rnd; Dazed 1 rnd | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Penalty -1 OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); 1 hit/rnd; Penalty (-1) | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); 1 hit/rnd OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Dazed 1 rnd; 1 hit/rnd | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Penalty -1 OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Stunned 1 rnd; Penalty -1 |
| ? DT & 2 MjC (DT+10) | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stunned 1 rnd | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); 1 hit/rnd | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Dazed 1 rnd | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stunned 1 rnd |
| ? DT & 2 MnC & 1 MjC (DT+11) | DR+11 Hits*;1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stunned 1 rnd; Dazed 1 rnd | DR+11 Hits*;1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); 1 hit/rnd; Penalty (-1) | DR+11 Hits*;1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); Dazed 1 rnd; 1 hit/rnd | DR+11 Hits*;1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); Stunned 1 rnd; Penalty -1 |
| ? DT & 1 MnC & 2 MjC (DT+13) | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3);Staggered 1 rnd OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stunned 2 rnds | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3);Stunned 1 rnd OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); 2 hits/rnd | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3);Stunnned 1 rnd) OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stunned 2 rnds | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Staggered 1 rnd OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stunned 2 rnds |
| Critical Success (Natural 20) | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death |
| * = Hits cannot exceed the sum of double the Damage Rating (DR) of the attack plus the stat used in making the attack. Thus every attack has a damage range of DR-(2xDR+Stat) | ||||
[b]Combat Damage Table[/b] | ||||
| [b]Amount over DT[/b] | [b]Bash[/b] | [b]Slash[/b] | [b]Pierce[/b] | [b]Energy[/b] |
| 0-1 | DR Hits* | DR Hits* | DR Hits* | DR Hits* |
| 2-3 | DR+3 Hits*; Dzd 1 | DR+3 Hits*; Pen -1 | DR+3 Hits*; 1 hit/rnd | DR+3 Hits*; Pen -1 |
| 4-5 | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) | DR+5 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1) |
| 6-7 | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Dzd 1 rnd OR DR+6 Hits*; Stun 1 | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Pen -1 OR DR+6 Hits*; 1 hit/rnd | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); 1 hit/rnd OR DR+6 Hits*; Dzd 1 | DR+6 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Pen -1 OR DR+6 Hits*; Stun 1 |
| 8-9 | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Dzd 1 OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Stun 1; Dzd 1 | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Pen -1 OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); 1 hit/rnd; Pen (-1) | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); 1 hit/rnd OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Dzd 1; 1 hit/rnd | DR+8 Hits*; 1 Mj Wnd (-2); Pen -1 OR DR+8 Hits*; 1 MnW (-1); Stun 1; Pen -1 |
| 10-11 | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stun 1 | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); 1 hit/rnd | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Dzd 1 | DR+10 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stun 1 |
| 12-13 | DR+11 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-2); Stun 1; Dzd 1 | DR+11 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); 1 hit/rnd; Pen (-1) | DR+11 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); Dzd 1; 1 hit/rnd | DR+11 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); OR DR+11 Hits*; 1 MjW (-1); Stun 1; Pen -1 |
| 14+ | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stag 1 OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stun 2 | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stun 1 OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); 2 hits/rnd | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stun 1 OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stun 2 | DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stag 1 OR DR+13 Hits*; 1 DrW (-3); Stun 2 |
| Critical Success (Natural 20) | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death | Instant Death |
| * = Hits cannot exceed the sum of double the Damage Rating (DR) of the attack plus the stat used in making the attack. Thus every attack has a damage range of DR-(2xDR+Stat) | ||||