Firehawk Games
RPG Discussions => Novus 2e => Topic started by: imported_Rasyr on February 14, 2019, 08:28:51 AM
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Over in the "Paring down for a Public Beta" thread, AresLunthar had an idea about using the stats to determine the Target Number of things.
(i.e. instead of a Stat of 3 for Dex, Dex would have a TN 17, and any skill based rolls against Dex would be applied against this TN).
However, this breaks down when it comes to such things as Combat and Magic. So while I might include it as an option later on. I doubt that I will use it in the Beta, unless I have some sort of epiphany.
Has anybody else have any comments or changes that the would like to see in Running Novus (am already planning on specific Spell lists for various religious orders. Just have to get them written up.
But all other suggesitons, please drop them here so we can discuss.
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I agree on the stats. I like my idea - but not here.
I personally would rather see 2.0 remain as a TN 15 based system then have a +3 Stat for everyone to prop the dice rolling up to a TN 20 based system. In my experience too many bonuses in a bell-curve based dice roll can make the dice irrelevant. One thing that Novus has going for it is a familiarity for D&Ders. Preserving the Novus 1.0 stat bonus structure maintains a level of that comfort IMO. Also, I have a concern about how PCs starting with Bonuses of +3 to +6 would devalue Skills. I have not play-tested yet so this is strictly an observation.
For TNs I would like to see it switched to something like having 2 base TNs based on the skill being Common/Expert (or some similar divide). TN 15 & TN 20 respectively. Then use the Minor & Major complications as adjusters. This would allow GMs to easily build tasks. A Common Skill would be something you should be able to accomplish on a stat roll (athletics, perception, stealth) or more specifically don't need special training to do. It also creates separation between skills like Perception & Tracking.
I do this when building my Novus Mini's because it's easy to demonstrate how to layer Complications and kind of fun as a GM to map out all the quirks you can use to make seemingly mundane circumstances extraordinary.
I'd like to see Strategic Movement re-calculated into a MPH value and some encounter rules expanded. I know Tyrlon is going to be an environment of exploration. I think over-all 2.0 should be built to play in that environment.
I have plenty more thoughts- but, am pressed for time now.
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Continued......
I think that in the core rules there should be clear examples of how to use the most common skills. Perception vs. Stealth, Tracking, Healing, etc. should all have examples similar to the way combat is always presented as a walk-through. I also think clearly defined benefits of skills will encourage players to develop more well rounded characters.
When I was GMing last week the player noted that she wasn't sure what the real advantage was of having a few ranks in Tracking over a higher Perception for example. Yet, simultaneously, she was please to see that the table on pg. 86 of the Novus Full Rules contained detail on Performance.
That sort of information could be included with the skill description so that a player has an idea of what the skills benefits are.
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Sounds like good ideas.
Have the basics in the Core, and then I could do an expanded version for like a GM Book.
For example, I have the Crafting Rules and the Magic Item creation rules in the Appendix of the playtest (along with the Herbalism rules). Perhaps I could work out some simplified tables for all these, and we could include something like that.
I should add the magical herbs and herbal elixers to the equipment section as well, since they will be the most common, and the most likely to be an ongoing money drain for players.
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Over-all I think that as the draft is developed we should make sure that the entire game is playable based on a very streamlined presentation of the Rules. Expansion material can be handled in Libram's etc. Even if it's already written.
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Did we officially do away with the Imploding Dice mechanic an adopt a 1,1 roll as being an automatic Snag? I remember Samwise7 observing and recommending that at some point. I agree with it.
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Did we officially do away with the Imploding Dice mechanic an adopt a 1,1 roll as being an automatic Snag? I remember Samwise7 observing and recommending that at some point. I agree with it.
Fumble: This occurs when you roll a 1 on both dice. Consult the
Snag Point Table (p. xx) to determine how many Snag Points
are gained. Double the number of Snag Points earned is then
used as a modifier for a random roll on the appropriate Snag
Table. The character also earns a Fate Point.
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And we also have (not including normal success or failure)
Nova Roll: This is a roll that results in a 1 on one die, and
a 10 on the other. The character immediately earns a
Fate Point. The action being attempted automatically
succeeds, but at the bare minimum needed for success.
The character also makes an unmodified, non-explosive
roll on the appropriate Snag Table using 1d10. Th GM is
encouraged to describe the attempted action using both
the Snag and the minimum success in such a way that the
Snag occurs and yet results in overall success.
Critical Success: This happens when you roll a 10 on both
dice in a single roll. Your dice roll is treated as being a
40, and you add in both stat and skill modifiers and
determine the results from there. The character also earns
a Fate Point (cannot be spent this round). Consult the
Boon Points Table to see how many Boon Points have
been earned. Then consult the appropriate Boon Table,
and spend the Boon Points on Boon Effects. You may take
multiple lesser Boons, so long as the total Boon Point cost
does not exceed the number of Boon Points you have.
Explosion: This happens whenever one of the two dies rolls a 10.
You roll another d10 and add the result to the total die roll.
Should this extra d10 roll also result in a 10, you add it to the
total and make another roll. This continues for as long as you
keep rolling 10s on the die or until you reach the maximum
dice roll allowed. The sum of all dice rolled cannot exceed 40.
Once rolling has stopped, you add in skill and/or stat bonuses
and determine Success or Failure normally.
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I thought so. I'm going to try GMing without the explosive roll but with the Critical Success. Speed things up a bit.
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I am currently looking at ways I can try to pare down the Running Novus Chapter.
I already know that I need to rewrite the Percentage results description. Perhaps the other ones as well, to make things a little simpler.
I personally would rather see 2.0 remain as a TN 15 based system then have a +3 Stat for everyone to prop the dice rolling up to a TN 20 based system. In my experience too many bonuses in a bell-curve based dice roll can make the dice irrelevant. One thing that Novus has going for it is a familiarity for D&Ders. Preserving the Novus 1.0 stat bonus structure maintains a level of that comfort IMO. Also, I have a concern about how PCs starting with Bonuses of +3 to +6 would devalue Skills. I have not play-tested yet so this is strictly an observation.
For TNs I would like to see it switched to something like having 2 base TNs based on the skill being Common/Expert (or some similar divide). TN 15 & TN 20 respectively. Then use the Minor & Major complications as adjusters. This would allow GMs to easily build tasks. A Common Skill would be something you should be able to accomplish on a stat roll (athletics, perception, stealth) or more specifically don't need special training to do. It also creates separation between skills like Perception & Tracking.
Interesting idea. I am definitely giving something like this some thought and looking to see how it may affect things.
Also looking at adding, Minor and Major Advantages to go along with those Complications, (Advantages decrease the TN, Complications increase it)
And then look at the Common Tasks and Common Modifiers tables and see how I can bend, spindle and mutilate into those 4 categories, along with giving examples.
For example, a heavy Obstruction in the way of your movement would be equal to a Minor and Major Complication Combined, while a Light Obstruction would be a Major, and loose footing would be a minor.
Trying to accomplish a task while taking part in melee would be worth 2 Major complications, etc...
A simple Lock would be a Minor Advantage, while an Average Lock would be a minor complication.
And I see what you are saying, rolls that are based on the Secondary Stats should be TN 15 Base, while those based on Skills should have a base of TN20 as the starting point (thus a simple percrpetion roll is a TN 15 using the Insight stat, while searching for a secret door would use the Search skill, have a base TN 20 and then have complications and advantages piled up on it.
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I am going to post to this later.......but, I did not explain myself clearly.
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OK- lets see if I can do a better job of this.
Lets assume that all Skills have a base Moderate TN 15. The TN of 15 is balanced well to the Stat & Skill Structure of Novus 1.0 because most average people will have 1-2 skill ranks from their Background to apply to Every-Person skills (skills like perception, stealth, or athletics) and maybe a stat bonus. So, when you think about it; it's reasonable to assume that an average person will have a bonus of +3 to any Every-Person skill. The average roll in Novus is 11 and a roll of 12 or higher happens about 45% of the time. So, an average person will roll 15 about 45% of the time on all the skills that they should know just by being a person raised in a certain type of culture. I'll revisit some math later.
When a skill is more difficult than TN 15 it is because it has a Minor or Major complication applied to it (or both). One of the Major Complications should be that you don't have a skill specific to a task. So, if you don't have Tracking and you want to follow a set of tracks you can use Perception with the Major Complication (no skill) and add +5 to the Base TN of 15 for a TN pf 20.
All other complications are applied equally to all people attempting to Track. So, if you had two PCs one with Tracking and one with Perception trying to follow the trail then the PC with Tracking would start with a TN of 15 and the one with Perception would also have TN 15 but also a +5 Complication. This is the building block of why there are different TNs IMO.
The reason why it is important to keep in mind the value of stat bonuses & skill bonuses is that in a bell curve system they equally affect the lowest roll possible as the highest roll possible. So, if you have a total bonus of +8 the lowest roll result you have is 3+8=11 (a natural 2 being a failure), and your average roll is 19. The trick with balancing the dice rolling is keeping an eye on how quickly you can get to an average roll of TN 15 and at what DP cost.
So, in Novus 1.0 if you have a stat bonus of +1 you can purchase all of your Favored Skill up to rank 5 at level 1 and have an average roll of 11+1+5 = 17. But, you'll only roll higher than this 45% of the time (when you roll a 12 or higher). The 6th rank costs 2 and so this is where you start to plateau. However, the Running Novus section presents TNs as increments of 5 (10, 15, 20, 25). If you don't know the math I just explained and just start using TNs of 15, 20 etc. you are going to unknowingly frustrate your players because they are not going to be able to regularly roll those values until levels 3 and above (unless they max out a skill at a cost of 2/rank when they level up).
So, that is why I started to really look at the TNs. Novus Mini #3 for example is actually (skill wise) balanced for 3rd to 4th level PCs because all of the TNs are 18-25. Until I actually GMd that adventure I would not have even noticed.
Now, if for example we were to use a stat bonus that started at +4 (3+1) and we assume that they have 2 ranks in an Every-Person skill then the average roll is 11+6=17 but, they would need to roll a 14 or higher to achieve and Average TN 20 task. That's a 10% chance.
Do you follow?
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An Aha! moment!
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NOVUS MECHANICS
Novus is a very flexible game. The basic mechanic described below can be used in a variety of ways to resolve various actions and other potential tasks that characters may want to do. As the Game Master (GM), you can use these various methods to resolve almost anything involving characters. We will go over each one briefly.
CORE RESOLUTION METHOD
The base Target Number (TN) for every roll in Novus is 15. This applies to all rolls.
Now, to this base, are added Complications or Advantages, either Minor or Major. Multiple Complications and Multiple Advantages can actually apply to the same roll, allowing for a diverse array of TNs based one the situation at hand.
Minor Complications will add +3 to the TN of the roll. Major Complications will add +5 to the TN. Minor Advantages will subtract 3 from the TN while Major Advantages will subtract 5 from the total.
SAVING THROWS
Saving Throws, or Saves as they are sometimes called, are how the character tries to resist the effects of some external influence, such as poisons, diseases, spells, and even some skills. Saving Throws can also be used to make generalized rolls where there is no proper skill involved.
Unless otherwise stated, the default TN of a Saving Throw is 15, just as detailed above. To make a Saving Throw, you roll 2d10, and add in the appropriate Secondary Stat. On rare occasions, you may need to make a Saving Throw against a Primary Stat.
While the default TN of a Saving Throw is 15, it is not uncommon for the things that require saving against having a higher TN. For example, the Saving Throw TNs for spells are often higher than 15, as it is based upon the amount of magic involved in the spell.
Saving Throws, like other rolls, are explosive. However, Saving Throws do not earn Snag or Boon Points.
Example: If a bare-foot character is trying to quickly cross a 30' wide room that is covered in broken glass, then he would want to cross without slicing his feet to ribbons. While we know that he could safely cross if he took his time, he is in a slight hurry. The GM decides that the character can make a Speed Save to get safely across the room. The player rolls 2d10, adds his Speed stat. If the result is 15 or higher, then the character has made it across without slicing his feet to ribbons.
SKILL ROLLS
Most skill rolls are straight forward, following the basic resolution method listed above. While, Combat and Spell Casting rolls are also considered skill rolls, they have their own TNs based upon the Defense of the foe, or the Casting TN of the spell to be cast.
Skill rolls are where you will most often encounter Target Numbers that differ from the base of 15. This is because of the Complications and Advantages listed above.
For example, if a character does not have any ranks in the skill to be attempted, the task would get a Major Complication, increasing the TN from 15 to 20.
OPPOSED ROLLS
There will often be times where one character or NPC may be attempting something that another character or NPC wants to prevent. One good example might be trying to sneak past a guard who is looking for folks trying to sneak past him.
The simplest method to resolve this is to make both characters/NPCs roll. The TNs for each roll are determined normally. If both rollos are successful, the one with the higher difference, between the TN and the actual roll will be the winner.
Example: A Guard has an Insight of 7. The Rogue has a Stealth of 5. The GM determines that the TN for each roll is 18. The Guard rolls a 10 and an 8, for the Exploding die, he rolls a 1, giving him a total of 26 (7+10+8+1), which is 8 points above his TN. The Rogue rolls an 8 and a 10, and for the Exploding die, he rolls a 5, giving him a total of 28 (5+10+8+5), which is 10 points above his TN. Since the Rogue's 10 is greater than the 8 of the Guard, he wins, and is able to sneak past the Guard.
Should the roll result in a tie, then the TN is increased by 3 points, and both sides roll again. This being repeated until there is a clear winner.
Should one roll fail and the other succeed, then the one that succeeded wins the Opposed roll. A character can win the Opposed task even when failing their roll, and it cause the action to still be accomplished. In the case of our example above, if both failed, and the Rogue failed by less then the Guard, then even though the Rogue was not stealthy at all, the Guard was so out of it that he did not notice.
Opposed Rolls should not be used for things like contests where both participants are trying to hit a specific target, as that is simply a straight up skill roll against an identical TN since one side isn't trying to negate the other side's actions.
PERCENTAGE TOTAL
There may be times when you, as GM wish to determine how much of an action or task was accomplished, rather than going with a simple pass or fail mechanic.
To keep things simple, if the roll is equal to the TN of the task, 20% of the action has been accomplished. Each point above the TN will add another 10% to the total amount accomplished.
BONUS ROLL
The whole idea of the Bonus Roll is to use one character's skill in order to provide a bonus to the skill roll of another character. The GM determines the TN of the task being used to aid another and the player rolls as normal.
If successful, the person being aided gets a Minor Advantage to their roll (-3 TN). If the roll is successful enough to earn a Boon Point, the person being aided gains a Major Advantage (-5 TN) to their roll.
Should the helper fail their roll, the one being helped gains no bonus. Should he fail by 5 or more points, the person being help would get a Minor Complication (+3 TN), and if the helper fails by 10 more, the person being helped would gain a Major Complication (+5 TN).
How does that look?
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I am also working on removing the Common Tasks and Common Modifier tables, instead discussing the items listed and explaining how the Advantages and Complications could and/or would apply
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This is what that would look like once done
Balance - Presuming a surface from 7 to 12 inches wide, you would use the Acrobatics skill for this. If the character has no ranks in that skill, then they could use the Reflexes stat along with a Major Complication. If the surface in between 2 and 6 inches, you would add a Minor Complication to the TN. If the surface is less than 2 inches wide, we would increase this to a Major Complication. If the surface were unstable, such as a tightrope, that would add another Major Complication on top of things.
Bluffing - This is where you would use the Influence skill to convince somebody of something. If easily believable, this would add a Minor Advantage to the TN. If it is not so easy to believe, that would be a Minor Complication, something Hard to believe would be a Major complication, while something almost impossible to believe might be worth 2 Major Complications or more. If trying to get a character to do something that they would do under normal circumstances, then that would have no Advantages or Complications. If it is something that they would be unlikely to do, that would likely be a Minor Complication while something that they would be very unlikely to do would be a Major Complication and something that they would never do might be worth 2 or even 3 Major Complications, depending on what the desired task was. As mentioned in the skill description, the target gets a Will Save, with the TN for that increasing by 1 for every 2 points above the final TN that the roll is.
Climbing - This task can be performed with either the Acrobatic or the Athletics skills. The basic TN allows for climbing a knotted rope, or bracing against a wall as you climb. It also includes ship rigging or a wall with many ledges to use. A typical dungeon wall with few handholds would be a Major Complication, while trying to climb a rough rock or a brick wall would have 2 Major Complications stacked onto the TN.
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It's nice to have my crazy confirmed. LOL. In the beta version you could even have a small table that lists 5 or 6 common Minor Complications and 5 or 6 MAJOR Complications. Then release a GMing Libram later with the complications/advantages for each skill listed.
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It's nice to have my crazy confirmed. LOL. In the beta version you could even have a small table that lists 5 or 6 common Minor Complications and 5 or 6 MAJOR Complications. Then release a GMing Libram later with the complications/advantages for each skill listed.
Remember, the Beta release is the same as the Novus 2.0 core rules, so it has to be completely and fully playable.
Thus, I am converting those 2 tables into guidelines about Complications/Advantages.
However, having said that, I can definitely see a much more massive volume of text in going through each skill and detailing the various Complications and Advantages that I can come up with.
The real trick for agreeing with your crazy was to rewrite some of the resolution methods to better fit that crazy, which actually turned out to be relatively easy to do. The Opposed rolls was the most difficult to convert, and the Percentage definitely needed more clarification. And the Bonus rolls fit perfectly with the Advantage/Complication guidelines.
Side Note: I used to use something similar with RM way back. I would take the basic success and then add and subtract modifiers on the fly to get the total of what the player had to roll over.
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Me too. I think we do it instinctively because we have done it for so long. But, with 5E using a re-roll mechanic for Advantage/Disadvantage it makes it somewhat necessary to show GMs how to build a challenge rating. Actually, what I was thinking of doing was including a little GM table with Novus Mini's that has the 5 basic building blocks (TN, Minor/Major Advantage, Minor/Major Complication). Or maybe just adding it to the text sometimes. Novus Mini #5 has examples of using Minor Complications to add difficulty to base TNs in it. I liked that because it also adds to the GMs tool box for storytelling (it gives them something to use to describe the environment). I'm going to GM that in a couple weeks for a level 2 PC so it should be a good test.
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Oh... working through that table, and taking a closer look at traps
Currently a trap is listed as such (Search TN being first,Disarm being second:
Arrow Trap: TN 25/TN 30; +15 Arrow/Bolt (6); Triggering the trap fires an arrow or crossbow bolt at the target.
But with the Complications we could instead list it as such:
Arrow Trap: S1/D1.1; +15 Arrow/Bolt (6); Triggering the trap fires an arrow or crossbow bolt at the target.
And thus, the number equals the number of Major Complications (with the number after the decimal (.1) being a Minor Complication). Not having the right skill, as always, increases it by a Major Complication.
Thus it would be
Trap Name: S(Major)[.][Minor]/D(Major)[.][Minor]; (Attack Bonus) Attack Type (Base Damage)
(bits in brackets [] are optional).
Thus the actual stat block for a trap is:
Arrow Trap: S1/D1.1; +15 Arrow/Bolt (6)
And for the GM, that means you need a TN20 to Search for the trap (TN25 to notice it without searching for it), and a TN 23 (15 + Major [5] + Minor[3]) to Disarm it using Gimmickry.
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Hmmm. I think I'd rather have the TNs right in the text while I am GMing. Traps are interesting. They are a perfect example of how you can adjust TNs to the level of your PCs. In fact it might be interesting to develop a recommended TN matrix based on total bonus vs. TN. D6 systems do that sometimes and it's really helpful for GMs and players to gauge how good a character actually is. It would be a useful tool......I feel a brainstorm coming on.....
Something like
Bonus TN15 TN18 TN20
+5 65% 45% 10%
+4 55% 35% 8%
These #s are not accurate- I just wrote them in to demonstrate
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So, I am curious. I for one think it would be worth while to create some sort of conversion document to allow Novus to be used easily with some of the online resources available for D&D. I sort of began converting for my own purposes: Novus Mini #3 was a straight conversion of an online dungeon. While we're in the process of re-balancing Running Novus I wonder if it makes sense to take this into consideration too. I mean the goal is to make at least a little money right? Which means that we're going to have to convert a few D&Ders at some time....LOL
Off hand I can say that I would be able to create a quick reference table that could assign Novus TNs to D&D CRs. So, CR1 might be TN15 etc.
Any thoughts on this?
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That sounds like a nifty idea. I am not well enough versed to make such a table myself, but if you want to, more power to you.
(http:///bigwink.gif)
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I flipped through my Dungeon Masters Guide. It uses the same base TNs as Novus 1.0. TNs 10/15/20 as Easy/Moderate/Hard. I'll give this some more thought....
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OK, I put together a draft of a Skill Bonus vs. TN table to use as a GM aid. Have a look
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Silly question really. I assume Novus is scaled to have a hex or square on a map represent 10 feet. Is this correct?
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5' or 10' works best for scales
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I used a 5'/square scaling last session. We were using some pre-fab dungeon tiles with furniture etc. so, that scaling seemed to be more appropriate. But, I think for my maps I'll use a 10'/square.
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That one section in the Running Novus chapter where I discuss making special lists for Clerics, now has examples (2 in the beta, 3 in the playtest). I have also added an extra spell to both the Monk and Paladin, to bring them up to the same number as the other Hybrids.