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Author Topic: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings  (Read 1302 times)

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Offline Dimirag

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Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« on: July 18, 2022, 08:15:12 PM »
Hi! First and foremost, I'm really enjoying reading the game, its really cool, simple and modular.
While reading it, I'm having some questions, thoughts and ideas, so I thought about posting here as to get some clarifications and feedback.

Now, disclaimer, any rule change I may post is in no way a critic on the game system, just a reflection of my game preferences...

Lets start:

1- From what I'm reading, there is no "Ability Roll" only Skill and Saves (plus opposed rolls), this leads me to a question:
Would be OK to free the skills from their associated stat? So that a PC can roll Athletics with STR in order to lift a heavy object (instead of CON as per the core rules).

2- I'm thinking on giving 75 Character points at Character Creation, but, the player must buy the Race and Class using the cost from the corresponding LN.
Should it be 95 points and charge the Background skills? Should I round up to 100 points?

3-Natural Ability and Entertainer Talents: On the core rules the Minstrel has it at Natural Talent x2 but it was changed on LN#3 (I guess to keep the class between the point range).
Is there a way to have Entertainer as a full optional Talent? I know it can have a higher cost due to the Minstrel being at the max 26pts...
Maybe Natural Ability works on any 2 specific skills, be it Favored skill or not, be it from the same or different skills while Entertainer (should rename it) works for all instances of the same skill, but maybe those skills must be Favored.

I'll better stop here for now  :-X


I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for any error.

Offline Rasyr

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Re: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2022, 09:33:37 PM »
Now, disclaimer, any rule change I may post is in no way a critic on the game system, just a reflection of my game preferences...

First, welcome to the forums.

Now a disclaimer of my own. :)
Novus (both editions) are designed to be hackable and for it to be easy to do it, while being difficult to break when doing so.

Also, since you are talking about Novus 1e, please be aware that I am a bit rusty with it since I haven't touched it in years while working on the second version.

Lets start:

1- From what I'm reading, there is no "Ability Roll" only Skill and Saves (plus opposed rolls), this leads me to a question:
Would be OK to free the skills from their associated stat? So that a PC can roll Athletics with STR in order to lift a heavy object (instead of CON as per the core rules).

Oh yes, most definitely. In Novus 2e, I did exactly that. And basically say for GMs to choose skill and appropriate stat and then add those to a roll.

2- I'm thinking on giving 75 Character points at Character Creation, but, the player must buy the Race and Class using the cost from the corresponding LN.
Should it be 95 points and charge the Background skills? Should I round up to 100 points?

One of the things I was moving towards was that all the stuff you get in making a first level character added up to 100 points.

Race = 25 Points
Background = 20 Points (i.e. each skill rank is 1 point of cost)
Class = 25 points
Development = 30 points

Libran Novus 3 and 7 have the point costs for races and whant I would do is give them 100 points, and then let them purchase races, backgrounds, and classes at point value costs given in those issues.


3-Natural Ability and Entertainer Talents: On the core rules the Minstrel has it at Natural Talent x2 but it was changed on LN#3 (I guess to keep the class between the point range).
Is there a way to have Entertainer as a full optional Talent? I know it can have a higher cost due to the Minstrel being at the max 26pts...
Maybe Natural Ability works on any 2 specific skills, be it Favored skill or not, be it from the same or different skills while Entertainer (should rename it) works for all instances of the same skill, but maybe those skills must be Favored.

I'll better stop here for now  :-X

Just be careful there. If I remember correctly, I made the change after realizing that Natural Ability could be abuse if it was for more than one skill, and thus entertainer is there for two non-combat, non-magic skill.

But having said that, if it works for you, go for it.

Offline Dimirag

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Re: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2022, 10:15:23 PM »
Thanks for the fast response, sorry to bring stuff from an older edition, but I really liked the old beta file, and buy the game once I could, 2ed is on my wish list, but buying in Dollars is complicated where I live in, so 1ed was on my allowed budget hehe

Novus (both editions) are designed to be hackable and for it to be easy to do it, while being difficult to break when doing so.
That's one of its main points to me, I'm a very "hack what I play" guy.

Quote
Just be careful there. If I remember correctly, I made the change after realizing that Natural Ability could be abuse if it was for more than one skill, and thus entertainer is there for two non-combat, non-magic skill.

But having said that, if it works for you, go for it.
Thanks for the advice, I may play a little with some options to see what feels better.

I'm also thinking on replacing the Martial Artist & Monk "Combat Moves" talent with another, as by itself it does not bring any special benefit (maybe creating a non-trainable Talent that gives more points for combat moves instead of the 1:1 rate).

2 more questions (again, sorry for the memory lane):

1- With the 5 ranks per level purchase limit, and the escalating cost, I fear that players will increase rapidly on a few skills and then when the cost gets high start increasing other skills (specially with the XP cost per level also increasing)
I'm thinking on removing levels (nothing new, there's an option for that), but also to make a flat cost for skills.
Do you think is a bad idea? Should I use a medium value for costs or keep the initial ones?

2- LN#3 incorporates Dwarfism and Gigantism, both with a 10pts cost, but giving a +2 to two stats and -2 to two other, the modifiers balance each other, is the cost paid for something extra I'm not seeing?

Again, thanks for your time.






I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for any error.

Offline Rasyr

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Re: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2022, 11:15:50 PM »
I'm also thinking on replacing the Martial Artist & Monk "Combat Moves" talent with another, as by itself it does not bring any special benefit (maybe creating a non-trainable Talent that gives more points for combat moves instead of the 1:1 rate).

That sounds interesting

2 more questions (again, sorry for the memory lane):

1- With the 5 ranks per level purchase limit, and the escalating cost, I fear that players will increase rapidly on a few skills and then when the cost gets high start increasing other skills (specially with the XP cost per level also increasing)
I'm thinking on removing levels (nothing new, there's an option for that), but also to make a flat cost for skills.
Do you think is a bad idea? Should I use a medium value for costs or keep the initial ones?

One of the inspirations for this game was a percentile based game that had what was often called "diminishing returns" where the first 10 ranks in a skill gave a +5 bonus per rank, and the next 10 gave +2 per rank and then 0.5 bonus per rank for each rank after.

The increasing costs reflect this concept of diminishing returns, higher ranks cost more to acquire, thus are harder to get.

Yes, this will actually lead to more well-rounded characters overall....

If you want to do a flat cost, I would recommend taking the costs for 20 ranks, total them and then divide by 20. This would work out to be 3 (3.25 rounded down) points per rank for Favored, and 6 per rank for standard.

Or if going by a theoretical max of 30 ranks, the costs would be 5 and 8 respectively.


2- LN#3 incorporates Dwarfism and Gigantism, both with a 10pts cost, but giving a +2 to two stats and -2 to two other, the modifiers balance each other, is the cost paid for something extra I'm not seeing?

Again, thanks for your time.

when figuring stats, I always considered bonuses to be worth twice as much as the minuses. Plus do not forget that the actual size changes will have other benefits

Smaller = harder to notice
Larger = better at intimidation

Basically some rough intangibles..

Offline Dimirag

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Re: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 12:24:55 PM »
That sounds interesting
I thought about making it a 2pts non-trainable talent which would give 3 points for combat moves per buy. Martial Artists and Monks have them x2 (4 point cost, 6 point for moves).
But, with combat moves limited by the amount of skill ranks, it means the player would have to go back and forth between the skill and the moves, but I could make that those points may be saved until the character has enough "move slots".

Option 2: Making that the moves purchased doesn't count against the skill limit, but this could mean that a player could buy cheaper moves to increase its repertoire...

Option 3: Cost 2 points per buy and just allows 1 extra move to be purchased outside the skill limit. I know it could be a huge improvement for characters without the Combat Training talent

One of the inspirations for this game was a percentile based game that had what was often called "diminishing returns" where the first 10 ranks in a skill gave a +5 bonus per rank, and the next 10 gave +2 per rank and then 0.5 bonus per rank for each rank after.

The increasing costs reflect this concept of diminishing returns, higher ranks cost more to acquire, thus are harder to get.

Yes, this will actually lead to more well-rounded characters overall....

If you want to do a flat cost, I would recommend taking the costs for 20 ranks, total them and then divide by 20. This would work out to be 3 (3.25 rounded down) points per rank for Favored, and 6 per rank for standard.

Or if going by a theoretical max of 30 ranks, the costs would be 5 and 8 respectively.
The game really reminded me of that game made by the guys from "frozen water"...
I may do 4/6/8 if allowing multiclassing. Maybe 2/3/4 at character creation as to keep the character creation points from become less useful on skill purchases.
(These costs reminds me of another d00 game, one with a name similar to Lyre)

when figuring stats, I always considered bonuses to be worth twice as much as the minuses. Plus do not forget that the actual size changes will have other benefits

Smaller = harder to notice
Larger = better at intimidation

Basically some rough intangibles..
Will take that into consideration.


The Warrior Mage on LN#4 has the Talent Weapon Bond, its not on LN#3, is this a Trainable Talent?

I've noted that with time, points and GM permission any class can buy the Fighter and Martial Artist Talent, as they are Trainable.
In order of making multiclassing into those classes the same as into any other I'm thinking 1 of 2 options:
1: Combat Training is a Non-Trainable Talent (you must "unlock it" buy purchasing the corresponding class)
2: Trainable Talents after Character Generation have an increased cost, but haven't thought the amount, x1.5? Double? A flat 5points? One one hand, it will make more expensive to buy Talents, but I'm thinking of not using levels, so there won't be a set budget to worry about.

I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for any error.

Offline Rasyr

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Re: Firstcommer and some questions and possible house-rulings
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 12:29:21 PM »
Weapon Bond -- I would say no (it is not on the list cause it was created after the list was made). I would limit it to only those of that Class.

Quote
1: Combat Training is a Non-Trainable Talent (you must "unlock it" buy purchasing the corresponding class)
2: Trainable Talents after Character Generation have an increased cost, but haven't thought the amount, x1.5? Double? A flat 5points? One one hand, it will make more expensive to buy Talents, but I'm thinking of not using levels, so there won't be a set budget to worry about

Those sound good to me. The idea is to make it work for you.

(also, I sent you a PM above, and an email, keep an eye out for it)